NOBODY Understands This About Disc Golf Form... [yet]

I've been teasing this one for a while today we're actually at my training we got to call fris Golf again fris golf again I know I got here a little bit early so we can start our session early so that we have about 10 15 minutes after to get perspective from a certified strength and conditioning coach someone who specializes in improving speed and power and has worked with a lot of other rotational athletes and get his opinion on my discol form and kind of discol form overall we've had a lot of conversations about it so he's more primed to this conversation but I want to get like an introductory talk with him here on the channel and then we'll I really deep later but I this my last train session before I leave for DDO but I've been teasing this for a while so I wanted to get something up to you and just introduce you to these Concepts because they've been very helpful for me as I've been learning my body which muscles are supposed to do what things and then how to throw more effective everything turn everything turn down everything turn just yanking where you're strong focus on your bu all right so what's the premise give me a little Lowdown so I can have a thought of process essentially kind of introduction I think later we can like really break down stuff a little more but here I just want to like more of your thought process of like what my form looks like what the main things that you're looking at are you're really good at communicating so like kind of lame as term find one of these that you want to look at in general before that just give a premise of like our training what we're trying to focus on and then how yeah yeah yeah so what what we do really well and what we always want to make sure that anybody that is playing any sense of sport especially throwers you want to make sure muscles dictate technique if the muscles do not dictate the technique we'll just always transition to technique technique technique but what breaks down in technique is always the muscles so there's different muscles there's 17 in just one shoulder gittle so when there's that many muscles in a shoulder gridle it's a lot harder to say my techniques really bad sometimes what we want to make sure is that there's like a sense of what is that muscle's job and what is it doing mhm so that's where we go really really deep into your body and especially when you're throwing so when we look at the way that you're throwing what sometimes what we can see is we like starting from the ground up when the ground goes up it's easier us for to understand what's rotating what's not rotating all joints rotate around a pivot point even your elbow we call that like a a hinge but it's really it rotates put a program more together for you when it comes to when you look at your hip does it pop up into your your your lumbar which would be your low back if it pops up and in that would be what's called instable to us when something's instable it doesn't move around a joint very well so when it doesn't move around that joint very well or that pivot point it's harder to make sure your Technique is actually up toart pun intended right um so you're kind of saying that if the muscles are instable maybe in my case especially since I throw so much overused and weak then like working on the technique can only get you so far it can only go so far you're going to get frustrated number one because you're like what's wrong and then you'll try you'll overcompensate and when you overcompensate you use those words where it becomes really weak overused or overused and weak and when you overcompensate you're just going to try to do the opposing side of it I'm going to pause this real quick because compensation is such an important part of this whole conversation that we didn't quite dive into very much he had another client coming in so I let the conversation go wherever and there's a lot of good nuggets in here essentially what we're talking about with compensation is when you throw or do any movement if a muscle that if all your muscles in your body were able to be working perfectly it's a muscle that would be used for that movement so one of the things that we're working on right now that you saw at the end of that kind of training montage was my belly my rectus abdominis basically the crunching muscles the ABS that you want to see the reason for that is if you watch some of my throws especially more recently those are just not being engaged at all and so in order to compensate for that I'm using the opposite side which is my spinal Erectors my low back my body knows that I want to rotate and this is very weak so it's going to use something that's stronger to compensate for that that weakness maybe is just something that has developed over time from underuse or in some cases you overuse an area and so it's a little bit strained and two weak and so your body starts to compensate in another way in order to throw and so essentially compensation almost everybody has some form of it and I'm trying to train it out of me almost completely but it's probably never going to be completely out there's always going to be some sort of compensation and essentially all that that term means in this part of the conversation is that you're using one part of your MUSC or part of your body to do the job that something else is better equipped to do but it's not better equipped than you so you're compensating through this other thing so that's the main thing that we're training for so that we don't have those parts of my body lots of different parts inside of those 17 muscles in my shoulder that we've been working on new ones that I keep finding out every single week because I'm weaker and weaker and weaker and then my belly for right now and if you watched yesterday's video you even saw the start of this because I filmed that video right after I filmed this and you can see that my throw was much more coiled throughout my core because we're working on those muscles so that my body knows that they're there and is able to use them in throwing that's what compensation means let's dive back into it lots of good stuff still coming we want to find the middle ground of that so yes exactly what you're saying sometimes it can become an overuse where it's like all you do is throw and there's nothing to combat that type of stress and that's where the training gets really important is because you're not you're not combating how hard it is on your body to just throw second the repetitive stress you throw throw throw cool thing is there can be different shots in this and different styles of throws but it's still the same same movement so it can cause overuse issues and breakdowns in your Technique because of the breakdowns in your muscles yeah so one of the things that we had we've been like looking at and like kind of trying to tweak forms and like try to find some cues and one of the things that we're looking at here specifically is putting my whole back foot on the ground and I had mentioned this a little bit in an earlier video when we like look at a throw like this as compared to some other throws why why are you trying to put that back on the ground the movement from the human body would be a pronation superation that's the foot just needs to be able to flatten and cave in it needs to be able to open it needs to be able to cave in but because you compensate through your calves so well if everybody wants to see beautiful calves look at him beautiful nonworking yeah yeah yeah they all they do is work right so we're trying to see and if you see your back foot always hitting the ground through your toes and your calf your foot never rotates in if your foot never rotates in nothing can rotate through your hip so you'll open it really wide instead of being able to actually hit the hit the ground rotate transition that momentum up through your knee into your hip through the trunk where typically you get stuck in the um the ground on your toe and then you have to over reach through everything and fall into the front leg and then it's like well that front leg is not a peg leg to spin around well it's mainly because of that that back foot so when we're looking at kind of this transition to now I am kind of putting that whole back foot on the ground uh the last time yesterday actually we had talked about okay from here into the next transition I into the front foot what is kind of the problem with that weight shift that we were looking and so what I'll answer that question here in a second what you'll see though is how your your hips are so much more level M there's not like a up and down but remind me what was the question so now that we're getting to like a more level like stable in the glute what's the problem with this next weight like I'm not getting all the way into that front foot like what we talk okay cool yeah so so what happens on the outside of your your leg is there some muscles that keep that leg strong from it not shooting up into your low back and the more and more those get strong so what you would do is when your leg would hit the ground it would pop your pelvis up and then it would drop your elbow you have to compensate but now what you see is a little bit better positioning better than what it was but positioning of that front leg being able to handle more Force through that front leg so when you see that front leg moving forward you're able to put it into the ground stronger and then not pop it up as high yes it's better but of course we can it to the best be the transition off the back like yesterday we've been talking a little bit about how I'm now doing better about getting my foot on the ground but then my weight kind of stays closer to my heel instead of going like from pronation to Super Nation it doesn't do the opposite to get that off of that back leg so there's still like kind of some weight lingering back there that doesn't transfer forward yeah so so so the movement's going to happen where you go from your foot to that but then being able to lightly hold that position is what we need to work on more is cuz it's like you're now thinking about being able to move that foot in and out but then that that hip hasn't seen that enough to be strong enough in it to say hey yeah let's move around this so that's where it can break down a little bit still where it's more of like now I'm learning the technique but now you want to make it robust in that technique so it doesn't adjust and so we're talking about getting onto the the xstep foot from like toe to heel so that the whole thing to the ins back to the toe to transfer the weight Y and that's one of the things I'm really not doing and we were talking yesterday about like how do we how do we work on that because I'm still opening up those hips a little too much we're talking about is now thinking about maybe moving that plant foot a little bit more forward instead of directly lateral because maybe moving it more forward will help me to stay stable in this hip and not open the pelvis instead I'll keep it closed so it can rotate around itself yeah and what is rotating around it means the trunk we want to make sure that the pelvis is stuck where it is so that your trunk can rotate and then you can tell the disc where to go yeah instead of using your upper body to try to control your lower body and then control the disc at the same time talk about my body cuz that's where we got a little bit breakdown we're working a lot on trunk over this week and then hopefully next week while I'm in and por I'll be able to continue to kind of drill that home and that's one of the fun things about like having Tommy here is I'm going to be able to work through all these next8 weeks basically that I'll be on the road I'll be back for four of those weeks and so we'll be able to have a lot of training here but during that time not kind of using that as a wash training wise but really trying to come back and come back next week after being an important and be like oh this is actually better this is good and then come back after the month that I'm gone and be like oh this is really really good yeah you want to keep what we we we we came up with now with with the upper body what happens is when a pelvis moves too much the upper body is going to have to open or reach and sometimes what you think I reach we can do you think I reach sometimes Thro that's crazy that's crazy isn't it causes elbow pain um and R but the overreaching sometimes of reaching through his shoulder blade can counter product the trunk rotation which would be um around the belly button area to make that thing rotate more where um we look see if there's passive or active ranging motion so when it's passive and you see him reaching really really far um to get into a a momentum place you can see it's not like coiled like a like a little um twist top like and then it can untwist really fast it's more really like straight and straight instead of real twisty this would be more backwards compared to instead it's my shoulder is kind of coming here and so they're not rotating the same you're Reaching Across instead of spinning across so you kind of reach across instead of spin across and if you can spin across then you can have your arm free to wherever you need to put it but that's where sometimes the reach across is going to cause you to try to control your trunk and control the disc at the same time which can cause quite a bit of breakdown anything a lot of that is dictated by the lower body and so tightening up that pelvis area is going to be really helpful yep anything from the rib Cades down and then with the upper body as well we talked a little bit about this today I learned about upper rotation is that something shoulder struggling with here as well yeah so you want to get into What's called the the the big terms are called protraction retraction all that means is your shoulder blade can wrap around in front of your rib cage and behind your rib cage it can reach up around your rib cage and down towards your rib cage and what can train that is we're looking at the overuse of the wrapping from throwing so you want to train upward and downward to keep the middle part really healthy when it wraps cuz you were saying I have like really robust like rotator and then nothing else in my shoulder that's the thing that's holding your shoulder girdle together and that's where you put so much stuff through that uh rotator cuff that everything between your shoulder blade and the middle of your back needs to be able to pull that shoulder blade behind you so that your elbow can then do what it's supposed to do your arm can do it that's where sometimes you'll make your arm do everything that your shoulder blade should do yeah I know a lot of this stuff is like not crazy actionable it's like really informative and maybe it can be actionable for somebody but are there any specific actionable things cuz obviously like I'm coming here I'm like paying to be here to work with in my opinion some of the best understanding of biomechanics rotationally so that I can like throw better and hopefully 6 months from now my throw looks completely different and I'm significantly stronger but is there anything that people who maybe don't have the resources to do something like this like whether that's money or just like people with the knowhow anything that they could do to like think about this for themselves yes 100% um so that's going to be more of making sure you get your body to rotate to both sides make sure that you're strong in both sides you never just want to be strong on your throwing side everybody can like control their belly through movement rotate the other way through that that's something to practice especially if you're going to practice throwing and do before throwing 100% rotate all the time but make sure that it's your your what's called internal and external obliques the inside and outsides of your belly is actually doing the movement and you practice that the second thing would be practicing like pulling your shoulder blade around your rib cage in all different areas not like your arm or this just see what the congruency is like just practice pulling your shoulder blades together practice opening them up where it's going through your shoulder blade not your arm and doing things of that nature so it's a lot of becoming first off informative which is great second aware of where is my information so that's where I think just becoming aware filming yourself throwing would be really important so that you can then understand a little bit more of where you're breaking down and so that then you're like oh my gosh why does my shoulder get really high I should probably practice pulling it down so that it goes across the middle a couple things for me as a traine to understand that is one self is going to feel like weird but I would recommend if you're especially doing this by yourself do it in a mirror because like I would there's so many times even still like we've been training what have we been training six seven weeks maybe together about six so like there are times when I'm like oh yeah I'm doing this right and it's like yeah well you like dumped your shoulder blade forward like all these things that I feel like I'm doing it right and I'm like moving something that's not supposed to be moved and then with the t-spine stuff which is like the the obliques it's going to feel weird but like you literally have to feel like this side is pulling you this way and this side is pushing you this way and then control it on the way out too that's like it's a weird feeling but it's like really cool when you can do it correctly and then the last thing is like with filming yourself filming your form and then even like doing these things give yourself like Grace and time because it's amazing how much the body adapts when you are intentionally trying to make it adapt I came in here today and we had worked on something yesterday and then I had just like not done anything and today's like you're a whole different person I guess we're supposed to film you a little more since you're really good on camera and it's cuz I like didn't do it perfectly yesterday but I did it intentionally and then I came in here today and my nervous system had adapted to closer to what I wanted it to be and so if you have the intent to do it correctly uh it's going to work for you and you don't have to do it perfectly and it's going to take a a lot of time this is one of the things that is working me towards that next goal that I had which is the beginning of next season 2025 I feel like there's so much time cuz I have like 9 10 more months before that comes up and so I'm excited to see what can happen here and giving myself that time Horizon allows me to kind of feel like I suck at a lot of things for now and know that they'll get better and when you give yourself that grace period it gets better faster than you think so yeah it can be hard when you got to ride a bike again with training wheels and then once the training wheels come off it's like yeah I did not know I could do all of this yeah thank you Tommy do you want to shout out your gym at yeah yeah we're strength to strength performance in the Broomfield Colorado area we've been here and then we've got a second location coming soon into the rapo community area sweet thanks guys thanks yeah thank you anybody who doesn't wear sleeves in here gets ripped apart