MVP RESPONDED...

so MVP kind of responded to the allegations that I made against them I didn't really make them against them it's not like they did something bad we should probably change this to an MVP disc hex crave say a little plug for the Crave but if you haven't seen a video I made a couple days ago it was actually about how MVP is secretly selling discs for like 12 premium plastic on Amazon through another brand name called remix disc Sports this is something that was told to me by an Instagram page called Medina disc golf and I've actually heard someone reach out to Foundation disc golf on their patreon and ask them the same question about like what they think about remix discs because on Amazon you can buy premium plastic discs let me show you this actually I think it's one two three four five and kind of interestingly I actually have one of them in my fieldwork boxes right down here I needed another one of these bags and we'll get to the reason for that but these this here like the torpedo Juggernaut these are the premium plastic in their sport plastic and I actually have a new theory about something related to the sport plastic these are all premium plastic discs for twelve dollars the Behemoth is 13 because it's glow and these two base plastic discs are ten dollars now when I shot this video it was intriguing because essentially it felt like these discs which are made by MVP shows that mvp disc Sports loc is the owner of disc golf Goods which is the Amazon storefront for remix discs but I wanted to see like what my guess as to what these discs were but let's real quick focus on the torpedo because this mid-range might look very familiar and I didn't want to believe it was true I knew that someone had called it a Mustang which I was like okay that's fine it's just that I'm bagging for this season more than like are going to be Pathfinders and we'll get to the comment from the person from MVP in one second but these discs unfortunately yesterday I went and held these side by side and tried to guess which was which and only because I know which one I put in my hand I'm pretty sure this is torpedo yeah and this is the Pathfinder this one might have slightly more dome but these discs are unfortunately or maybe fortunately depending on how you look at it the same exact mold like literally the same mold and these ones are the same as that plastic but this one is less than half the price of this one now this is where things get super interesting because we're gonna head over to the YouTube video that I actually put together for like kind of challenge myself with those discs because it honestly was a lot of fun to throw them if we look at the comment that I actually pinned it's got 35 likes now but I'm pretty sure this is somebody from MVP and this is what they had to say so they say your theory about being test or Proto molds was so close because that's ultimately what I came to is I felt like these discs were very similar to the discs but they felt a little bit off like this felt a little less stable than a Mustang because the Mustang built itself is a slightly overstable mid maybe like 5502 which is interesting because it's probably the exact same distance but I felt like they were like Factory second molds in their prototyping process they were like these are good enough but not exactly what we want not the case for these companies thought space and mint which is what I thought actually the case for MVP and this is where it gets crazy because it says the molds were never prototypes for the leasing companies this is important leasing companies being like probably the specific word for mint Jester discs it looks like a couple other companies actually that this person who commented this talks about in a second so basically lease mold from MVP and then sell them under a private label name but these molds were planned discs for MVP that didn't quite have the desired flight for MVP Flagship Brands being MVP Axiom or streamline which is interesting because this disc we think is a streamlined trace the Spartan so that wouldn't make a lot of sense so maybe it's not a trace maybe it's like a diamondback or something not 100 sure the torpedo was a prototype for what eventually became the reactor which is interesting I have a reactor here Vision reactors for sale I was gonna grab some for my last round because I had some glow ones but we got Vision reactors so why would I do that this was a prototype for what became the reactor and they are definitely similar the reactor is slightly more overstable slightly more like flatter down here instead of rounded towards the bottom but very similar basis is actually now that I look at it and he said those that follow mints will remember the alpha went on a long Hiatus the original Alpha which is a fairway driver eight speed was not compatible with MVP's new production machines so it got retired the same reason that the amp and shock were retired which probably are MVP molds among other molds unfortunately to the consumer it's much better PR and NDA compliance because I think companies like mint and maybe thought space and a lot of these companies probably have mbas with MVP it's better NDA compliance for mint to say that the mold was retooled than sorry MVP can no longer make it and that mold actually we think is the Ronin mintus Alpha I was calling it a seven speed seven and eight speeds feel so similar but this is probably like eight four zero two point five or something like that like a lot of people were saying I was thinking it was a photon because there's a lot more stable than a grackle but Alpha alsolete also also makes sense overmill Tech is not just about top and bottom like other brands so if you take a mold like a destroyer you have the top part which goes to this parting line and then the bottom part and The Parting line is what a lot of people talk about where it's higher or lower uh kind of makes things more or less stable what's interesting about top bottom technology is if we take a pharaoh was able to find some iBall and Pharaohs I've heard that this has the top of a destroyer in the bottom of a strike so the tops might be the same down to this party line but then the bottom is a strike not 100 sure if that's true or not but a lot of companies are top and bottom whereas MVP they're going to get to is a little bit different multiple discs share the same core proxy and envy signal and relay pyro and reactor and so on MVP can create a prototype of a rim then attach it to a current core the injection points where the overmold attaches are left in the open position to let polymers flow to the edge like streamline that's interesting I'm guessing that means like these injection points at the sides here there's like an injection point right there that you might be able to barely see where it looks like they pour into the overmold but you can guess leave it in longer to make it basically fill up the whole disc instead of just the rim not having the core and then that's like what streamline does and if it doesn't work out then the least that Rim configuration uh to another company like mint a TSA and because they can just leave those on the open position so they don't like stop once it gets to this part they'll like fill the whole disc I guess uh none of these least disks share an overmold with Flagship discs so the wing is all different only with each other this is why none of the remix TSA or mint molds have embossing on the underside like the flagship Brands because this is inside of the Mulk he's going to call it a second convex embossing where you can see Axiom disc and run your finger over it and it's not into the mold as well as it says PG approved right here and none of these discs have that but all MVP Axiom and do streamline I don't think I haven't streamlined this to check but all those discs do have it maybe streamline isn't technically a flagship brand that would make sense ah no it doesn't matter and then he says that tsas and Putters with embossing but those are not manufactured by mbb also so crazy that this person would be willing to drop this comment like this is so much good information so why is remix a thing production time and material shelf life which is something that I talked about a little bit made a lot of sense the raw polymers or the Plastics can only sit so long to remain viable MVP cannot waste machine time to produce 2000 discs when a leasing company calls I mean that like they can't just throw on that mold and if like let's just say thought space one and more Pathfinders to do another round of Pathfinders they can't just call up MVP and be like hey we need 2 000 pathies so instead what MVP does is if there's an excess of raw material overruns can be made minor example MVP produces 10 000 Torpedoes in different plastic plasma Neutron and proton which this would be the proton plastic I guess this would probably be Neutron and then the plasma is kind of like what this is which we think is a profit from mint discs Juggernaut and if TSA doesn't need any Aura but does need ethereal to pick up the plasma and have them stamp Pathfinder like the neutron is just Aura the proton is just that's this is nuts so mint on the other hand doesn't need any Apex but does need Eternal and Sublime but the plasma is already sold to TSA so they take the proton and Stamp It Mustang so this just takes a different stamp and turns into a Mustang same exact disk and if there are any overruns from that the neutron or whatever or if they don't buy all those it's sold on Amazon as a remix torpedo this is why you rarely see any of the companies restock all their Plastics at the same time and why there's such long runs or periods between runs so like you're not going to see an ethereal Pathfinder which is just the plasma plastic the stuff along with an ethereal Mustang but you might see proton Mustangs or they call them Apex what do they call them Eternal and Sublime I guess this is kind of nuts how this all works which I know a lot of insiders know but this is not something that I knew 100 and if I didn't know it and like I spent all my time doing this I'm sure a lot of you guys don't understand this as well or like haven't known about it which is nuts and so why Amazon which does make a ton of sense Logistics packaging shipping website ordering returns this is why when we initially looked at it this is actually what I used to do a little bit uh for my living but you can see here that it ships from Amazon this remix this Eldritch and is sold by disc golf goods and the wind that works is when you sell on Amazon you can actually they can just take the 500 to 1000 of these pack them into one box and ship it into an Amazon warehouse and Amazon will end up fulfilling them doing customer returns um dealing with all the payment processing and everything and they just have to sit on Amazon and they'll sell there so that's kind of how that works with all these and that's why they do it on Amazon because Logistics is just so much better than having to deal with it yourself believe me having to worry about shipping all these out I like it a lot more because profit is much better like I get to keep a lot more money um but even with this actually let me see if I still have access to any of my Amazon tools to see if I can pull this let me grab the Amazon number right down here be right there isn't so we can actually see how much they're making per unit so you can see here perfect this is going to give us a lot of information which is kind of neat so we can see that on this 13 or 12 item the remix Eldritch which is just their putter here Amazon's fees are 278 fulfillment cost is 340 storage cost is three cents and that's like assuming that it's gonna stay there for three months so storage fees can go up so it looks like Amazon is going to charge 6.21 on their end meaning that the net profit or the net revenue in this case for Amazon is 5.74 cents per disk if the plastic only costs them two dollars to make they're making three dollars and 74 cents just by having this sell on Amazon in a three month time period so pretty interesting to see and I was pretty much right on actually because I said they'd make four to seven dollars and they make six or maybe they just want more useful life then what mint and thought space are giving them in terms of orders like maybe mint and thought space aren't selling as much as MVP wants them to I used to sell on Amazon the money that they're making on these this is very minuscule maybe 40 to 60 of whatever is sold on Amazon is Amazon's fees and such MVP might be grossing four to seven dollars of Revenue which is not a lot at all so I knew consumer cheap on Amazon yields nearly the same profit as selling a couple thousand of a mold to leasing company which is now we can know how much a couple thousand is so if they're making three dollars a unit on that after shipping and polymers they're probably making three dollars a profit by selling them to a leasing company so if wholesale for it just gives you a lot of information because it's wholesale For Thought space Athletics to a dealer is like let's just say twelve dollars then that probably means that they're making three or four dollars on top of that MEP is making three or four dollars on top of that so probably cost two to three dollars to make and then six dollars to sell the thought space and then ten dollars to sell to a wholesaler and then twenty dollars retail very speculative but so probably close to numbers so this is interesting as well I said video idea I think we'd all love to see a comparison video of the torpedo and all his variations torpedo Mustang Pathfinder addicts reborn which is a wild disc which I also reviewed the harmony which is a disc that I think is going to come out too Harmony from essential disk so this is another company that if you look through essential disks looks like they have a bunch of molds that are going to be coming out they mostly got approved here February 2nd 2023 and I'm guessing it's going to be a very similar situation where they have like six molds and there are seven remixes so I'm sure they're just taking a lot of these and re-stamping them just kind of crazy that if I want backup Pathfinders I can just buy Torpedoes and legitimately this is in my bag for my field work because it's just another Pathfinder and like I can buy Mustang if I want to if I want like a cool Mustang and they're all the same nuts so brand and visual bias are real totally agree people will swear the moles are not the same because of a 0.1 centimeter variance on PDGA specifications which makes sense and I think PDGA measures all these and they might get those 0.1 centimeters off because the measurement for this disc compared to the Mustang compared to the Pathfinder I do think has those like 0.1 centimeter variances even though it's literally coming out of the same mold coming from MVP's mouth uh and I have an idea of who this person is so spoiler the PDGA does not care and nothing will change unless malt are required to have convex embossing which is what we showed you earlier on that crave where it showed Axiom meaning that it's going out not concave embossing because it can be faked with hot stamps which is what now you can look and see they actually have the weights on the inside right here where they just took a hot stamp and didn't put any foil in it until this happens arguing that the Pathfinder and the Mustang are not the same as is arbitrary as calling all destroyer at the same because Innova has multiple Destroyer modes which is why they are wildly inconsistent but yeah MVP responded to my video essentially about remix discs and these seven discs and like they're just cheap Replacements I would prefer to throw a Pathfinder because this art is incredible and I love throwing discs that look sick so this little Pathfinder here this Aura is sweet I also think this is my other Theory real fast on Amazon you can only choose sport plastic which they say is premium plastic but when these Plastics came this is in proton this is in plasma all of these were in proton so I'm not sure if those are the only obviously it could be neutron as well which would be much more like this Aura this is just a neutron disc right here but I'm guessing that if you want to be able to choose the specific plastic like proton versus plasma whatever there's no choice to do that it's just sport plastic or base plastic which is what these are in and this plastic here also feels different to the eldris Eldritch this feels much more like an electronish plastic and this feels much more like nerve plastic from TSA which I'm not the biggest fan of personally glow I think you can count on as glow but that's where I'm guessing you can't like choose a plastic because they're all just going to be fulfilled by Amazon and like maybe all the juggernauts are plasma and maybe all these are proton but maybe some are proton and some are on your thumb I don't know it's just I'm speculating you know but that's what you got to do people who are more than likely an MVP to respond to you because I responded to say this is super interesting makes so much sense how do you know this and then the guy never responded he actually kind of interesting if you take a look at his channel no video joined April 19th like two days before I posted that video hey that's actually wrong and wouldn't make a lot of sense anyways that's actually the day that I post that video which makes a lot more sense as to why it was the guy or maybe it was the day it was it was like right around the time which is kind of nuts and uh eyeballs here and then this Josiah pankost said I'm pretty sure this is Chad at MVP his nickname his nickname has always been butter I don't quite understand what that means but if we look up chat at MVP Chad MVP disc Sports Chad Richardson is the come on engineering and design person at MVP it could be Chad I don't know I don't know why vodr is a nickname for him but really cool that mvp probably responded everything here makes so much sense and it definitely like just shows to my bias that like I thought that those were slightly different molds I mean that Aldritch is just the bullet which is just as yesterday's love and the Pathfinder is just a Mustang which is just an addict's reborn which is just a Peace Train which is just a torpedo like well this is not so if you want to watch that first video we actually throw all these discs to see how they fly check that out right down there Chad if that was you hopefully you comment again and confirm MVP if you want to clear anything up that I said go ahead and leave a comment and I'll pin it but kind enough thank you for sharing all the information in a YouTube comment and uh putting it all in the public it makes a lot of sense it feels crazy but I mean branding is important you see this all over the rest of the world and I don't think it's wrong for it to be happening in disc golf I just think it might be a way that disc golf is maybe kind of catching up I guess you could say but I mean it's great for MVP and this is probably worth a lot of their money to pay Simon comes from especially because it seems like there are new brands like essential dis and Jester which are just partnering with MEP and not all this from TSA or mints or whatever are MVP discs some are manufactured elsewhere I'm sure they have a lot of ndas I don't think that's breaking in NDA obviously that would be a crazy thing to do just for you to comment but thank you guys for watching the video subscribe to my channel if you want normally they're not like sit down an investigation style but if there's a response like this that happens I want to tell you guys about it because this is crazy okay love you guys bye gotta finish watching champions