THE FUTURE OF DISC GOLF TECHNOLOGY?!?

in this box is latitude 64's new project grip and what latitude is claiming is that they have a new patent pending process where they fuse two Plastics together it's all in the back of this fact sheet here and it's supposed to give more grip to the discs while still having really good stiffness and torque resistance because of that this might sound like it's something new but when you just take a look at it specifically this Grace or this Explorer it kind of seems like it's something that's already been done by a bunch of other companies so in today's video want to take you through the claims about project grip how it actually feels how it actually flies how these discs are different to their normal molds what makes it different to all those Myriad of discs on the ground and then we'll do a birdier die back nine of owls Den here where if I can't birdie with each of these discs then I'll have to give one of them away and this time it won't be to someone on the course it'll be to one of you guys my subscribers in looking at this little fact sheet that they put in the box I was a little bit surprised about how they're claiming this new process works cuz I hadn't seen them EXP play it anywhere else before they ran these thousand prototype boxes which by the way if you're wondering I think they're all sold out now but it was $85 for the Box plus about $15 to get it shipped here I think everyone in Sweden's on vacation right now like literally which is awesome so when I reach out to my contact at Latitude there is no response so even though I try to be as unbiased as I can in every review I paid my own money for these discs if that changes your opinion on how I'm reviewing them just wanted to put that out there but what latitude is saying about these is that this is their first public showing of project grip and they're asking for feedback which I'll be able to give which is why I'm blurring part of the screen out this is a new patent pending process which makes it it possible to combine Infuse different Plastics which apparently opens up a world of opportunities making me think that maybe the extra grippiness which these discs may or may not have is not the only thing that they can do with this process not just the plastic type because as you can see all four of these look a little bit different the grace looking like a see-through plastic then they have the Explorer which is opaque you can't see through it both looking kind of Halo is or orbit in latitudes vernacular and then we have two discs that don't seem to have anything special or Fancy on them but but the grip might be a little bit different because we have just a see-through and a not see-through Putter and mid-range so there could be more application than just the grip like I already said we have a Grace explor compass and pure and then they also threw in a Gold Compass maybe because the compass doesn't sell all that well but also just for comparison purposes I'd imagine there's a reason it's the compass in this box and not the Explorer Grace or piure which are all much more popular discs and then there's a crappy drawing on how this is not my words this is theirs this plastic process works so it seems a little different than a lot of people speculated and this is where we'll start to bring out some of the other company's Plastics because instead of it being on the rims at all like an orbit a Halo even the tone more similar to this it seems to just be a skin on the top and bottom of the flight plate so let's see if there's actually a difference between these and then we'll talk about the other companies and how this might be a little bit different to those also I think they left out a couple syllables name we'll get some initial test throws with these to see if there's any initial differences between all the specific discs but first up we're going to have one of the most obvious differences which is the grace this is just the typical Royal Grand plastic Grace 11612 this is the project grip Grace and you can see this is significantly domeier than this one much flatter I don't know if that has to do with this extra process or just putting that mold into a more transparent plastic but we'll do a grip test with some chalk to get ourselves back to Baseline before every single grip here's how my thumb travels on this one when I grip so so it's already pretty good plastic but you can see I'm moving my thumb a little bit here's the project grip Grace it is a little bit grippier for sure and one of the biggest differences that I noticed is that there's not only grip for my thumb there's also more grip on the bottom side you're typically not worried about the slickness or grip down here but you can definitely notice that there is a difference with my bottom fingers but I'm wondering if this grace is going to be a little more overstable than the typical Grace because the party line is a little higher and there's a little more Dome so this might be an absolute bomber oh it's not actually more over stable that almost looked like it wanted to be a little glider but this disc is by far the biggest difference that you can tell because they never made this in a translucent plastic and this is two colors so what about the next ones the Explorer here is a 7speed it's 7502 actually bag them for a little bit I don't have another Explorer unfortunately anymore to compare this one against but it actually feels a little understable and a little Dy so I don't know if this process makes it a little bit domier this might make it flipp earier but you can definitely feel the grip and the tack it seems to be a there definitely seems to be a difference and one of the things that's interesting is if you remember back to that drawing that I showed you it showed that there wasn't anything on the rim and if you look at the difference here on this Explorer when I'm rubbing my finger against the rim versus here there's much more resistance very very smooth easy to do I'm going to do it very lightly very lightly you can see there's a little bit of extra friction and then on the bottom too you can see here there is something on the top and the bottom of the flight plate for me the compass is where things get really interesting because this just looks like a normal disc so how is Project grip going to be working in that but we have a Gold Line compass that they so graciously included which is kind of funny because this one is not the gold style plastic like the pure is and some people I heard got orbit ones but you could definitely see there's a little slickness you can move your thumb around pretty easily right there but if we go on the project grip one it's a little bit harder to do this is good thumb training right now because there's a little bit more resistance and you definitely feel it on the top and the bottom of these I think this process works a little bit better on the transparent style discs I don't know what it is about them but the grace and the compass feel like there's a little bit extra added grip than the Explorer and the pure maybe that's because these already seem to have some sort of grip but I mean this is definitely a little Slicker and then these feel like really grippy and still have the same amount of stiffness if not actually a little well a little more than the Gold Line and lastly we have the pure this is is a Gold Line pure and you can definitely I mean you can hear this one here's an old Gold Line pure I guess this project gri P Not Gold Line nothing this has been a little beat in so it might get thicker here's a new opto here I've only thrown this for one round same thing it does feel still nice and grippy and this one feels honestly pretty equally stiff to the opto the opto might be ever so slightly more but it's definitely more stiff than the Gold Line especially in the rim the rim feels stiffer than the flight plate on these which might be similar to another company that we'll talk about in a second but definitely not the same but this one I definitely found that I seem to have the project grip substance here and it's a it does seem to bleed a little bit more onto the rim even when you compare it to the compass the compass way Slicker here way more grippy grippy grippy grippy still kind of grippy but a little bit Slicker once you get to the margins I think the wider The Rim the more you'll see the difference in the flight plate and the rim of the disc very interesting first throws with all those cuz I think the project grip discs were all as flippy if not a little flipper than their counterparts which I was not expecting especially with the grace I have no idea what would make that the case with them the M the one thing I can think of is that when you think about what pitchers do when they're throwing and they try to get more revolutions RPMs on their throws is they'll add like resin or stuff I'm not a baseball player so if it's wrong it's wrong but they'll add sticky stuff so that it sticks longer on their hands and so even if these might have similar stability those are all me yeah they're all me sorry someone trying to Sag the disc but the only thing I can think is the extra grip might give extra RPMs and of course I can't test that even on a tech disc because you can't project grip you can't like put it on a tech dis but that is something that could make sense and for distance references the P all went about the same distance the project grip Compass went about 35 ft farther than the other compass and the project grip Grace and the normal Grace when just about the same distance this one just hold on turn so much longer than I expected let's trat about the other two plastic technologies that are out right now and then I'm going to play a quick front nine kind of comparing the discs and then give you my opinion after that before we start the bird your d challenge I have to say though I've never thrown a compass before and I'm loving that thing so mixing Plastics together I've not been in the game very long just over 2 and a half years since I started playing so I don't know the full history of it I heard Gateway had the first over mold but it was never patented and now it's kind of MVP's thing but I have Plastics from a few different companies that we can compare these two and unfortunately you're not really just kind of looking at one disc because I think what latitude did with this box is show hey we can do this on our orbit looking see-through Plastics we can do this on our orbit looking tra opaque Plastics we can do this on our normal looking see-through Plastics and our normal looking opaque Plastics shows more that it's a process than a plastic type which I don't know if it's like 100% revolutionary but there is definitely something different with these discs and I'm so excited to just like throw them on the course but the first thing that we're going to look at is a Yun over molded discs I got this from my buddy it's got some injection points where it comes in I more took this out cuz I think it's cool that I have it and it's a TN swords and my buddy gave it to me it's in the Shell plastic so I guess that's e over mold I don't know if they make this anymore they're pretty neat shout out my buddy Josh for giving this to me more on to kind of the king of overmold plastics we have a pixel which is a Putter and overmold is interesting cuz you can put it in a bunch of different Plastics kind of similar to the project grip but a different style I don't know if MVP has a patent on overmold technology I'm unsure of the enforceability and I'm not a patent person so you're going to have to talk to dis golf. law or somebody about what the patent means for this but it is definitely something that I have never seen in dis technology before and I've reviewed a lot of discs and to be honest the marketing around this was a little weird because honestly probably smart cuz they let everyone speculate about what it might be and now that it's finally in hands we get to see that it is different and it's not just like a gyro a steady ring a tone like any sort of just mixture plastic or a Halo so the over mold from MVP you have a core and then you have an over mold around the disc so two different parts that come together I don't know how they fused it might be heat it might be chemical it might be glue probably not glue but they're infused together and you can have that on a Potter plastic you can have that on something like this Neutron or like this Neutron thrill which is getting given away at 40,000 subscribers cuz it was Eagles and he gave it to me for the purpose of giving it away after he wrecked it in one of my videos then we have someone like Clash who's doing a lot of innovative things they had double steady earlier where it seemed like they took parts of the flight plate out and injected another plastic that was fused together but it would break occasionally so who knows how it's fused but then we have like tone plastic which has an under mold where the bottom part of the rim is different to the top part of the rim but it's really only on the rim not not on the flight plate and it only affects a little bit of it but it's supposed to do something similar where it keeps it stiff but it's still pretty grippy on the top similar results seemingly different process and this seems to have potentially more quality control issues in terms of the two Plastics not matching up correctly it being a little bit more difficult steady ring is just a way to put two Plastics together and I also included disc craft in here just to show you like two Plastics or multiple Plastics like this jawbreaker Z swirl jawbreaker Z Flex they have lots of different names this like Z Sparkle metallic swirl like a bunch of different Plastics that you could put together to get different looks which will change the flight of the disc but it's not like these are made for a specific flight pattern they're made to look cool so that people will buy them and then you have something like a Halo plastic and someone at Inova I think Inova W that over on Instagram said hey this is something that we tried way back long ago and it's what sped on Halo and so be wrong to not bring out the Halo plastic but this again seems to be a way to make a star plastic which they have here and now they have Champ Halo now they have glow Halo and just kind of change the look of it I've never seen any marketing material in of claiming anything besides like Superior durability and maybe some overstability but it doesn't seem to be like hey this Halo is going to give you a performance benefit in terms of grip or in terms of stiffness for instance this is like a Halo Arrow this is my Tour series Halo Sphinx through infinite discs and typically the Halo will be a little more overstable um but like this is a very gummy feeling Halo you have gummy Halos you have really stiff Halos like my distance drivers or even like this Pharaoh Halo phoh but most of these are for marketing looks of discs and those looks will sometimes translate into into performance benefits whereas here it seems like they wanted the performance benefit side and it's now a process that can be added to a bunch of different Plastics so with all that being said let me play nine holes with these compare them a little bit I'll give you some thoughts before we go into the back nine and then we're going to play birdie or die and hopefully I don't have to give one of these guys away and I'll explain the rules of that after these nine holes where I shut up a little bit and you guys get to see the flights I thought my first ever throw with one of those was about to be nice Ace time with one of the new five you only need to see the p the rest are really bad you guys already know project grip Grace royal Grace one shot distance comp project grip first gobbled up hard for me to get him high and a ta oh dude project grip got got I lied project grip did not get wrecked I thought it did uh it's actually pretty good for throwing it 4 ft above the ground 473 70 68 468 ft right there the other gra I thought was a little bit farther not that these are bad at all 490 490 80 889 489 can't claim 490 on that one baby I don't know if I could tell which one wanted to turn more there we more so just had a good win and a teapad I was hoping that this one would be a little more overstable but it seems not to be so I've thrown them all in the front seven I skipped one and two cuz there are people playing and I think adding a half tick of Glide to each of the flight numbers is probably the most accurate the Explorer seems very flippy so the paring line does feel a little dropped on that one but just watching them fly and feeling them come out of my hand it seems like there is that little bit of extra spin all that being said I do notice a difference when I throw these discs so let's answer some questions from the comments my banana fro unboxing and then we'll start bird or die this could be really bad for birer die cuz we have a lot of wind so Tony or tonito says I think project gpus would be perfect for wet conditions which I'm interested in I'm actually let's test it I got water let's see if it stays grippy I'm not going to wet my or dry my hand or anything all one take real fast uh here's the pure going over to the teapad so it's still slippy but if I take the opop pure oh yeah it it helps there was less water on my hand cuz I'd already thrown a disc and the project grip stayed in my hand significantly easier yeah even that one I still have control over those wow the wind has more control over them though as I'm watching this is isn't going to replace like grip sacks or chalk bags but I think it is better for weather conditions if it's something you'd already baged don't put it in your bag for those conditions but it'll potentially help King Kermit says hoping they fly a bit more overstable I was kind of hoping that cuz your comment too and then he said gloss over something intriguing the grace is in a see-through plastic and he doesn't remember seeing that previously can we finally get different plastics for Royal Grand molds I would guess it might be because of this procedure that because it's a new procedure after the other new procedure we'll probably see other like Grand molds Grace RVE um strive Brave in these new Plastics hopefully I really wish this were more overstable man but I think that they could change that just by tweaking the I mean just get a RVE in this plastic whatever Grace is already not like it's a straight straight it's like a straight disc so whatever pentagonal dime says very interested to see what they do with this and if any other Trilogy Brands get their own versions or something similar I think that's very interesting as well I would imagine it sticks with latitude for a while especially as House of discs needing to find ways to differentiate the different companies but I wouldn't be surprised if it's rebranded or something slightly different or since it is a process and they might be able to do different things than just grippier Plastics maybe they make harder Plastics maybe each brand or company will get a specific one of those I don't know if that makes any sense these sound great for summertime I also think so cuz they are stiff shout out Julian for that um cuz they do still retain their stiffness around the edges and they have better grip so I think it will be better for summertime I haven't had any problem with them and I have problems with Su this sometimes it's like 85° out Pat note says I love the new Innovations but I'm wondering how sun or other things could affect the chemical bond but it really has potential to do so well I agree I'm interested but I'd imagine it's not different than other companies especially if it's a chemical bond compared to a heat Bond or some other sort of bond it would make sense that if it's a chemical bond heat would be able to change it it would make sense that if it's a heat Bond heat would be able to change it um but I am interested to see like over the course of this round does this get significantly less grippy uh King Propet can you answer I I think the grace is more Dy than my Royal Grace when set by side by side let me your thoughts it is more Dy yes any witness marks that shed some light on how these were molded really interesting concept and wonder how they edit it hopefully you've seen enough in the video so far to show like what it's about it but here's another up close look for you in case you're interested I don't know what witness marks would be but there's a look at the front at the side at the bottom now it's birdie or die time nine holes birdie or diey let's see how many of these bad boys I can keep if you haven't seen this series before on my channel if I have four or five discs we do nine holes 8 to 10 discs we do 18 holes and every disc is on the line to be given away right now as you can see there is no disc in the safe Zone to get it in the safe Zone you have to use it in a birdie outside of circle two so if it's a par three you have to drive with it if it's a par four you have to drive or approach with it but there is a way for them to become unsafe because I'm limited on the number of hisers I'm able to throw we're going to roll a D3 since it's only nine holes and see that we only have one Hiser to throw today only one again this happened last time too so one Hiser over these nine holes that does include up shots the only problem with that is if I bogey I lose a Hiser and if I'm out of hisers and iogi one of the discs in the safe Zone gets taken out of the safe Zone flee save all five of these discs otherwise we're going to going have to give him away to one of you guys and I'll tell you how at the end of the video but hopefully not cuz hopefully I don't have to do it hole one is a 620t par 4 it is that way typical FL is the higher this way and I was thinking oh great we're getting to higher the grace but now we can't heer the grace so a big Annie over these trees in this Tailwind hopefully get it high enough to not get early in the trees no I hit stuff get out get out get out get out oh that's bad I did not see it come out it's so hard to get it high in the Tailwind yeah he got throats so high I hope we can at least get a par starting off with the bogey is not good cuz that means we need two birdies to save a disc might not be able to see the basket oh yeah you can actually really well right through there I threw maybe one of the worst shots I've ever thrown in this hole before the only way I could see getting all the way there is using that explorer that we chucked on a forehand where did that one go that had to turn pretty good oh my gosh this is where I want this is why I need to try this play more get the right angle I can I can get pretty close no chance but that should be a pretty easy up and down that's bad you really really want to start out this hole taking two discs off the table cuz coming down the stretch it's a bunch of Gap hits you want to save the disc early we're just going to pitch up this Compass chill that's nice tap that in easy for eighto PS to save five discs with two par fors so we got 10 chances super doable one other consideration that always has to be made in case you ever want to do your own birdier Die video which I very much encourage if you do please let me know uh I want to watch it cuz that sounds awesome but uh the compass this gold one don't care about it nearly as much as the other project grip disc so that'll be the last one that we try to save cuz like if I give that thing away I don't really care as much as the main disc that I paid $15 for I would go pure man this teapad is gross right now I think pure down the middle is the play could be Compass down the middle I don't even have like a towel to wipe this stuff off if it like comes out on Hiser but it's a straight shot it's not a Hiser I'm talking like sper SP Spiker staller when we're talking Hiser counter but we have a little Tailwind so just send it right to the basket nice and smooth oh get up oh no I think too these disc will like stick to the ground a little more than than other discs it's still 260 still got to throw it dude see like that Compass it's got that little extra Glide let's go the pure is safe I'm going to need to spend some more time but I want to answer before the end of this video the question if I would bag one of these discs or not it already does feel a little less grippy but I think that's cuz we're on such a Sandy course and cuz I tested it earlier when I was playing I was like oh it's a little less grippy then you wipe it off a little you're like oh it's back to being normal and then you pick up another disc that's also been in the sand you're like wo that's way less grippy it's not like this will stay grippy even in like the sest conditions but it'll stay grippier than everything else also another to answer that other question about like markings and stuff I don't know what any of this stuff means but this is on these Piers which might show a little bit of the process of How It's Made all around the outside of this one it's the main one I see it on but I see hints of it on all the other ones so that means anything to you it doesn't mean anything to me I just throw frisbees on YouTube for a living so you're probably smarter so I'm thinking best bet is to save the Hiser for the last hole but it's a kind of a flat to Heiser shot so when I could Flex that one but we don't have a good Flex disc okay all my brain cells you just saw all of them working at the same time so I think we're going to save the Hiser for the last hole because it's a good 330t down hleer that I think I can reach with any of these in case I need to that being said this hole 12 720t par 4 so hopefully the grace and the Explorer can get it done or maybe the grace in the compass we do still have a little tail which is going to be helpful I always play this road as OB makes the hole significantly more interesting and I think we're going to throw this Grace actually turn it over this time and actually give it the height that it needs if we can birdy this hole and save two discs then we're really in business big old gray shot barely where'd it go well now we're on the hunt for that disc I do definitely feel especially throwing those drivers hard these could let's just say commit to your hit point a little bit more with these discs cuz I could see where World in which these are grip block machines for some people it doesn't hold on that much longer but if you already struggle with grip blocking these don't want to help you not grip lock we'll put it that way they won't make you grip lock but they're not going to help you not grip lock definitely watch that I know like these are coming out in pretty committed angles and a little more than I think with the driver specifically which could be cool but I think it has to do with instead of it coming out a little early like it sometimes can with me it's like really coming out boom steep on that angle and I thought I threw that right into those trees and I did not see where went from there so I'm hoping we have a good shot and I'm hoping you saw a finish cuz I have no idea where it went I'm sure you guys saw this cuz I don't know quite know how I didn't see it it is 30 ft maybe maybe 35 short of the other par for position which I think is about 515 so pretty sick shot over all the trees this is one of the better shots that I've ever had in this hole definitely not mad about it so we have saved the pure obviously we can still continue to throw it but it's a forehand here there's a backhand turnover with a compass which I think is the play right in between these two anes I'm probably not at all showing it close to what your perspective is but if I can just keep it on turn with a little late stability we're in business that could be really good hold hold that's going to be a long putt but at least it's a putt I sbled out of it pretty good here's the the Gold onine Compass I really feel like these are coming on my hands a little cleaner a little extra Spin and a little extra cleanness doesn't mean they're always good shots but they feel easier to throw just cuz I have to do less work on the grip end here I don't even throw a fan grip we're going to try to Fan grip this pier that's buckets just call me Joey if you are able to get your hands on these I think you'll see a pretty significant difference between these and the normal discs I'm I'm I'm like probably two or three times more impressed than I thought I'd be with how these came out and I know it's a massive blessing that I typically don't have to pay for disc that I'm reviewing and I'm a pretty Frugal guy in general so if I'm with my purchase of these that's a pretty good sign I'd say another question I have about these is on the putting side these are all premium plastic discs I wonder if they can make these in base Plastics that'll help you have a stiff but very grippy Putter and if you're already a premium plastic putter you want a little extra grip this aren't bad yes let's go here here's the pure oh wow that SN that snagged those chains that one should not have stayed in the basket this holes in a long 290 fet right by the tree there way back there right there I think we're going explore now swing back okay never mind it's still flippy it's so straight it's definitely had the right distance just a little bit off on the shape the straddle I can juice these not this one though oh it's Juiced no 25 ft putt for the par at that point maybe maybe just don't step it maybe just L it up let's go I thought that I was going to have to put a disc back from the safe Zone I did forget that I still saving my Hiser so I actually still had that insurance bogey of course you never want to take a bogey but I'm pretty happy with how I'm putting right now this hole is only 245 ft it is up on there and we have a little bit of a right to left wind sit okay I definitely thought that would drift more that was a mostly straight shot that might be an accidental Hiser if I was playing with someone I would give them that as a straight shot but I'm not playing with someone you guys decide let me know in the comments if you count that as a Hiser and that'll kind of be the barometer moving forward if I throw a shot like that should we take it as a Hiser or not let me know in the comments yes it's AER or no it's AER whichever one of those from you guys has the most likes is going to be the rule of law moving forward either way bad shot but we still have a putt and we still have our higher left Circle down the hill a good ways we're probably Ed Circle if not just outside oh oh it's a little Tilly I thought it was a little hey bad. bad wi read equals par right down that hallway 280 ft 270 I guess is what they actually call it honestly probably makes the compass a better play cuz how flippy this is you know I think this one we can just throw it flat out there oh no we had no chance it's so straight beautiful flight yeah that needed to be a Hiser dang it whoa maybe I should be putting with the Explorer it's two for two I'm going in the basket right now three holes we need to at least save this guy this next hole would be an incredible birdie I think I've only gotten it once or twice throwing through the right gap which is dead straight 350 ft low ceiling Kind of Perfect for this disc I think it's probably the hardest par three in Denver got a little headwind coming through you got a gap here and then that Center tree is actually like 60 ft in front of the trees behind it so it's really kind of three Gap to go through hit it hard higher Flip or flat to turn that's what happens when you pretend that the tree is not there you square it up but unfortunately unless we throw in with the compass which is on the agenda probably not taking a birdie on this one uhoh oh that's a pot oh that is a that's a pot I'm so glad I can putt today holy cow two days left to save whole 17 is a 460t par 4 kind of up the hill into the right it's a little tricky got to get out this Gap if you get to that Center Tree way down there you have an up shot for sure we need to save at least one of these guys so that we have a chance on the last hole but I think a little flat to Heiser shot would be great on this side I just don't want to use an accidental Hiser so I think we're going to throw the compass cuz it's a little more overstable and so we'll just go mid off the tea on a little kind of flat to Annie shot nice so straight don't get behind something oh that could be bad or it could be good that is very straight in the headwind we're going to try the grace on this outside line catch Edge oh that's pretty good I will say this grip does get a little bit of like it's easier to have sand stick on it and stuff so you got to wipe that off but here we are the chance for the up and down to save them all it got it didn't get stable at all no so this is where the grippy grace landed right there that's better this hill is deceiving I'm like 20 ft nice and easy yes come on no bogeys we're out of here that was harder than it needed to be with that Explorer I'm really glad I decided to throw the the mid-range out the Gap and I think that helped me realize how we need to constitute hisers if like I watched you throw a shot and I was like oh good heer that's a Hiser but like that shot with the compass I would never say oh good Hiser with that disc I'd say nice straight shot even that one back there I think I'd say oh nice straight forehand that one vers on aiser then like flipping something through a gap even if it stays on Hiser the whole way like oh nice Hiser flip even if it like stays on Hiser like you call like a pushing Hiser none of those if you were to like just out of the blue say oh that's a Hiser not talking about just the angle of the disc but the shot shape that's what we're talking about so let me know if you agree or disagree but for today my channel my rules let's par and get out of here and then I'll show you one last shot where we throw the grace on a forehand getting out of whole 18 back on whole two cuz I realized I haven't thrown the grace on a forehand yet today our basket straight down here I think for posterity sake we'll throw the I'm going to be honest though to me this doesn't feel like a Grace mostly because the grace a part of what makes the grace the grace is the plastic the like exclusivity of that foil Grand plastic this doesn't really feel like that so I know it is a Grace but to me it feels it's different you know little Flex out of the hand oh yeah use the pure for posterity sake and for the sake of gripping them chains so even though I think project grip kind of lives up to its expectations and its name it's not for me I don't think I don't think I'll bag any of these discs they're a little too grippy for me I think this overall is probably a success I think a lot of people are going to like it if you have sensory issues I your fingers feel like they dry out much more I feel like this feels like it takes some of the oiliness that's normally in your fingers and dries them out so my fingers feel like I should I should put lotion on them right now which is kind of a weird weird feeling for after throwing cuz it definitely works when it comes out and you're interested in it feel free to pick them up at infinit disc.com hopefully that answered all your questions I will be in the comments answering some of them if you have more I'm able to answer them probably can't answer everything but I think where I would use this is if they put this on a really overstable disc like the more since it seems to add a little more Spin and maybe a little flippy if they put these on more overstable discs than these I'd be all about it since these are all already straighter to flipp your discs um that's why I don't think I'd bag it but I think like if I had a AR RVE in this plastic like orbit RVE project grip that would be really money because then you get those highspeed overstable discs with a lot of spin on them it'll be throwing like rcky Yaki in no time maybe not but like I can believe that 375 down the hill headwind right to left normal Grace first a little high thr this one better a little more driven shot a little farther again little easier to spin maybe a little flipper that's all do the best thanks